Lurker > Mr Lasastryke

ron paul was great as a politician. he made libertarianism more popular than it ever was and converted tons of people to the movement (including yourself). very few people did as much for libertarianism as he did.

of course nowadays libertarianism is going down the drain because 1) gary johnson is leading the libertarian party and 2) tons of "libertarians" are poisoning the libertarian movement by passionately supporting trump (alex jones, tom woods, lew rockwell, lauren southern, kaitlin bennett, you). none of these things are ron paul's fault, though.
---

Geothermal terpsichorean ejectamenta

well, all politicians are liars to a certain extent (except ron paul). you just don't seem to give a crap when trump (one of the biggest liars of them all) lies, though.
---

Geothermal terpsichorean ejectamenta

yeah, if she's using that logic i'd sooner expect her to go after fast food places or whatever than bakeries. even then i don't see her saying something like that, though.
---

Geothermal terpsichorean ejectamenta

HotDogButts posted...

idk Bernie already came out in favor of bread lines

bernie literally SAID he supported communism back in the day, though. i feel like a lot of old people who self-identify as socialists now used to be diehard communists. but i'm very much convinced ocasio-cortez is a socialist who wants nothing to do with communism (or bread lines).
---

Geothermal terpsichorean ejectamenta

foolm0r0n posted...

Also there's like a 90% chance Ocasio-Cortez will come out explicitly in favor of state bakeries so be careful with that position...

i'll literally let a guy who hates me (there's plenty of candidates!) kick me in the balls, record a video of it and post it here if that happens.

GMUN archives all the topics so you can hold me to this.
---

Geothermal terpsichorean ejectamenta

foolm0r0n posted...

The point is all these words obviously have many different contexts and semantics you can use them with so you turning everything into this dumbass semantics argument every single time is a total waste of time.

uh, you started this by complaining that i regularly use words in completely wrong ways. if you don't want to argue semantics you should discuss what i'm saying, not attack the way i word things.

You can't righteously argue that we're using the words wrong when you yourself use the words for their unofficial colloquial meanings.

sure i can. a word may have different meanings but that doesn't mean it can mean anything and you can't possibly use the word in a way that's wrong. just because i use a word in one of several ways you can use it doesn't mean i can't attack people who use the word completely incorrectly.

also, i think it's ridiculous to claim that the way i use the word communism is the "unofficial" way. there's literally nobody in the world besides you who would argue that stalin wasn't a communist because "MARX NEVER SAID THERE SHOULD BE A GOVERNMENT." like i said before, language evolves and we're not in 1848 anymore. you're acting like a hipster who's arguing that paramore is "not really emo" because their music doesn't sound like rites of spring.

Just argue the actual concepts for once

i am arguing the concepts. i attacked muffin for his ridiculous stance that ocasio-cortez is in favor of governmental bakeries and food rationing. that wasn't an attack on his wording.
---

Geothermal terpsichorean ejectamenta

still don't get how i was using the word communism in the wrong way, though. i'm just using it in the way it actually was/is in reality, not in marx's theoretical "no government" way that can't actually exist.
---

Geothermal terpsichorean ejectamenta

foolm0r0n posted...

The dictator is just the leader of the workers so technically that's what Stalin and Mao etc were doing.

"the leader of the workers" isn't the government, though. like, first you accuse me of using the word communism in a "completely wrong way" because i was defining it as a system with a government and marx wasn't, and now you're saying marx wanted government anyway but he just defined it as "the leader of the workers"? i'm not following you anymore.
---

Geothermal terpsichorean ejectamenta

Kenri posted...

to be fair, before the "abolish all government" thing was the "bloody revolution where lots of capitalists die" thing

but from marx's point of view they had it coming

well yeah but marx was like "the workers need to kill the capitalists." he didn't say "there should be a ruthless dictator who kills millions of people."
---

Geothermal terpsichorean ejectamenta

SmartMuffin posted...

Someone who wants an "80% free market" does not want a free market.

if i want a glass of water that's 80% full, i don't want a glass of water?
---

Geothermal terpsichorean ejectamenta

foolm0r0n posted...

Yeah we know you're using words in completely wrong ways Lasa

yeah using a word in a way tons of people use it is wrong. because it's not like language has evolved since 1848.

am i also allowed to use kenri's "communists don't want government" point when you guys bring up the "communism killed 10000000 million people" argument again?
---

Geothermal terpsichorean ejectamenta

Kenri posted...

the communist manifesto literally calls for abolishing all government?

>_>

see, this is why i'm saying that "people shouldn't use the word communist" thing and now i fell into the trap myself. dammit. it's too confusing.

i meant "communism" in the "more extreme version of socialism" way, not the original marxist way.
---

Geothermal terpsichorean ejectamenta

SmartMuffin posted...

Government force distorts the free market in all kinds of ways, such that it can no longer properly be called free.

this is actually a sensible thing to say but it still doesn't mean socialists want the government to 100% control everything (including bakeries). i'd say what you just described is what socialists actually want - a form of free market distorted by the government (sure you can say "but then it's not free market!" but that's just a semantic thing). again, communists are the ones who want the government to 100% control everything.

That's why they always insisted on global domination.

ok vlado
---

Geothermal terpsichorean ejectamenta

foolm0r0n posted...

communism is socialism.

---

Geothermal terpsichorean ejectamenta

i've posted my pic on this site in 2006
---

Geothermal terpsichorean ejectamenta

muffin is going berserk on my usage of the words "the little." to make the leap from "socialists aren't satisfied now" to "socialists want food rationing by the government" is fucking ridiculous.

regarding the obamacare thing, the thing with that is that most socialists think it fucking sucks. they never said "give us any form of healthcare by the government and you'll never hear us again," they said "we want GOOD healthcare provided by the government." no shit they're not satisfied when you give them a thing that sucks. and they point to other forms of governmental healthcare in european countries they DO like. this is like if a guy asks for a house to live in, gets a cardboard box, complains, and then muffin goes "SEE, HE GOT WHAT HE WANTS AND HE'S STILL COMPLAINING! HE'LL NEVER BE SATISFIED!"
---

Geothermal terpsichorean ejectamenta

SmartMuffin posted...

as a long term end, yes, absolutely she does

...

i think we're done here.

this explains so much about why you're so vitriolic and unreasonable about the left, though. you literally think every socialist who goes "gee, maybe the government should take care of the poor a little" is a communist flag-waving revolutionary who dreams of long lines of people waiting for bread the government hands out. i guess that did make this debate valuable.
---

Geothermal terpsichorean ejectamenta

Kenri posted...

it sounds like y'all are talking about different kinds of socialism tbh

nah, muffin is just talking about communism when he claims he's talking about socialism.

he doesn't want to admit that the "communism = socialism" thing he's been spouting for the past 18 years is bullshit, so to try and save his ass he's going "HOW CAN THIS BE THIS IS LOGICALLY IMPOSSIBLE"
---

Geothermal terpsichorean ejectamenta

SmartMuffin posted...

that is logically impossible

socialism and free markets are completely and wholly incompatible

no, they're not.

let me ask you a question since this is obviously going nowhere: you'll agree with me that alexandria ocasio-cortez is a socialist, right? do you earnestly believe she wants the government to own all of the bakeries?
---

Geothermal terpsichorean ejectamenta

SmartMuffin posted...

the free market is the only alternative to socialism

when you see everything in terms of black and white (like you do), sure.

let me blow your mind: i, as a socialist, am in favor of capitalism.
---

Geothermal terpsichorean ejectamenta

SmartMuffin posted...

So what, you're not allowed to explain the policies the nazis actually held because that might be considered to be insulting to socialists?

not when you're incorrectly calling the policies the nazis actually held "socialism," no. again, "the free market is terrible" is not a socialist belief.
---

Geothermal terpsichorean ejectamenta

foolm0r0n posted...

What? This is probably the most common example of socialism in history, state-owned production of bread. What do you think the lines were for in soviet russia?

et tu, foolmo? i expect the "there's no difference between communism and socialism" bullshit from muffin (and tom woods) but you're usually more reasonable...
---

Geothermal terpsichorean ejectamenta

SmartMuffin posted...

marx, stalin, lenin, castro, etc.

nope. all of them are communists. after all these years you're literally still acting like there's no difference between communists and socialists. fucking unbelievable.

(yes, i realize that it's hypocritical of me to use the word "communist" when i just said people shouldn't be using that word, but it's honestly not important. the main point i'm making is that these people are NOT socialists.)

This post hasn't been up long enough for you to watch the video, but it's also obvious you didn't because he doesn't really talk about socialists in it much at all.

no because lol tom woods

i'll watch it later maybe

He talks about the nazis and how much they hated capitalism and free markets and admired soviet socialism.

he may not directly be saying "socialists are nazis," but by talking about nazis being socialists he's clearly trying to get his audience to associate socialists with nazis.
---

Geothermal terpsichorean ejectamenta

spoilers: socialists don't hate the free market.

i've used this example a million times before but find me one socialist who goes "THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD OWN ALL THE BAKERIES!"

as usual, this is a disgusting demonization of socialists by woods.
---

Geothermal terpsichorean ejectamenta

well, stalin wasn't a communist in the classical marxist sense.

i was talking about this in another topic several days ago but this is why people really shouldn't use the term "communism" - it's vague as fuck and it can mean a million different things. unless someone is literally going "communism is so cool i love how stalin murdered all those people," saying "YOU'RE A COMMUNIST" doesn't actually mean anything. you're only saying it to make yourself feel better. it's like how vlado calls everyone he disagrees with "globalists."
---

Geothermal terpsichorean ejectamenta

literally the fourth topic about this trailer
---

Geothermal terpsichorean ejectamenta